Curse

Da Deathblade · Feb 10, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

$50 dollars is a LOT for an expansion. Though there is no monthly fees which is great. I would wait for it to go down in price but i gotta see the new content NOW.

Loviatar · Feb 10, 2006, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

I will say this; Here Alex clearly states that Factions alone will have 4 character slots, so at a very minimum if we combine Factions with Prophecies we should have 8 total slots, anything more is gravy and fine with me, anything less than 8 is bull****. Why should already loyal passengers paying for an extended trip recieve less than passengers just boarding the ship?

.

then get ready for a bunch of BS because you simply cant seem to realize that when it is a stand along install of either one you get 4 slots which are SEPARATE from each other and cannot interact with each other.

the reason for 4 Factions slots when installed BY ITSELF is exactly the same as 4 slots for chapter 1

when you merge the chapters you will get an additional 1 or 2 slots as it hasnt been decided yet.

the people getting on the boat late with just Factions are only getting exactly what the chapter 1 people got.

a full game and 4 slots to play it with.

Prophecies = 4 slots and a full game

Factions = 4 slots and a full game

Prophecies + Factions = 5-6 slots and two full games

what is so hard to understand?

Gli · Feb 10, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

"I'm sorry sir, you already have a car, so I'm only going to sell you a 2 seater. I might sell you a 4 seater, but only if you promise to park it in a different garage."

Loviatar · Feb 10, 2006, 11:10 PM // 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

"I'm sorry sir, you already have a car, so I'm only going to sell you a 2 seater. I might sell you a 4 seater, but only if you promise to park it in a different garage."

if you were around for the UAS disaster you would know why this is happening this way.

Anet learned the hard way but they learned the lesson well.

Gli · Feb 10, 2006, 11:17 PM // 23:17

Actually, I'd be thrilled with a 2 seater. I just don't want a bike.

Ensabah Nur · Feb 10, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

then get ready for a bunch of BS because you simply cant seem to realize that when it is a stand along install of either one you get 4 slots which are SEPARATE from each other and cannot interact with each other.

the reason for 4 Factions slots when installed BY ITSELF is exactly the same as 4 slots for chapter 1

when you merge the chapters you will get an additional 1 or 2 slots as it hasnt been decided yet.

the people getting on the boat late with just Factions are only getting exactly what the chapter 1 people got.

a full game and 4 slots to play it with.

Prophecies = 4 slots and a full game

Factions = 4 slots and a full game

Prophecies + Factions = 5-6 slots and two full games

what is so hard to understand?

What part of: It's not 2 full games if I am getting a reduced number of character slots is so hard to understand?

What school did all these people that add 4+4=less than 8 goto? So I can be sure not to send my kids there.
Honestly and OMG I don't know why some people cannot grasp the concept of simple addition.

What part of: Why should returning/repeat customers be penalized for purchasing/using a sequal product? Is so hard to understand?

Wether we keep Factions seperate or not from Prophecies should have no bearing on how many character slots are given. If Anet is going to give us 4 character slots with Factions(which they already officially stated), then it makes no difference in server/memory space if we combine them with Prophecies or not. So therefore we should have a minimum of 8 character slots regardless. Matter of fact combining the 2 will take up just a tiny bit less server/memory space because it will be only 1 account to track instead of 2.Go ahead try and dispute that argument.

And as a sidenote not to belittle/degrade your argument any, but it's Stand Alone game not Stand Along

Loviatar · Feb 11, 2006, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

And as a sidenote not to belittle/degrade your argument any, but it's Stand Alone game not Stand Along

thank you for forgiving me my typos.

after the UAS debacle they will not even consider giving out more than 2 slots which would be one slot for each new profession.

the lesson they learned from UAS (offered one beta weekend for testing only) is that whatever is given is expected to continue as a permanent feature that is the players right.

with each additional chapter scheduled for 2 additional professions if 3/4 slots were given this time the arguement for 3/4 slots would be that you gave us that many last time and we will not settle for less.

by chapter 6 there would be 19/24 slots for 16 professions

4 Factions slots as a stand alone is exactly even with what chapter 1 had.

do the math on the combined accounts.

chapter 1

6 professions with 3 slots plus 1 pvp slot

chapter 2 added to chapter 1

8 professions with 4 slots plus 1 pvp slot

each covers all professions as a primary/secondary combo plus a pvp or extra pve

if we are lucky enough to get 2 slots on a merged account i will consider myself lucky

CKaz · Feb 11, 2006, 12:46 AM // 00:46

Loviatar I don't know why you beat the drum so hard the other way since none of us know the answer but I'll bite again

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

after the UAS debacle they will not even consider giving out more than 2 slots which would be one slot for each new profession.

They already shorted us for Chapter 1 and several of us remain against the wall (ie no PvP play). Continuing with 2 continues that problem.

If they want to retroactively give us 6 for Chp1 and 2 for Chp2 hey I'm all for it. We should total 8 as we reach 8. I'm perfectly comfortable with that as policy, you always have the slots in the number you access to classes.

The nutty piece here is why would those soley owning get more than return customers, who are arguably more getting an expansion - we have the standalone functionality already. This crazy model suggests for the same cost new players get more. Returning players not only play full admission to EXPAND, but get LESS additional in return. Some things to finalize obviously, but that's a lot people are choking on.

Any MMORPG, D2 style game, etc I can think of hasn't had such crazy limits.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

if we are lucky enough to get 2 slots on a merged account i will consider myself lucky

Many if not most of us would disagree with you and indeed might not take the next step. There's a reason it basically tied for #1 on a poll for what you're looking for in chapter2, a full third valuing it at the top.

You suggest they learned from the UAS. I hope they learned from the poll and outcry the subject has had and we get our 4. We'll see.

Otherwise a lot of other games don't work to hamstring the player in such a fashion and value return customers.

Loviatar · Feb 11, 2006, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by CKaz

Many if not most of us would disagree with you and indeed might not take the next step. There's a reason it basically tied for #1 on a poll for what you're looking for in chapter2, a full third valuing it at the top.

You suggest they learned from the UAS. I hope they learned from the poll and outcry the subject has had and we get our 4. We'll see.

.

i hope you actually realize how tiny a sample that poll represents.

also please note that i will be overjoyed to be proven wrong but since they could completely avoid complaints by giving in and they havent made the decision yet they are still debating 1 or 2.

if the probability of 3 or more were on the table they would have made the announcement that you will get 2 for sure on a merged account and we are debating if to give more.

if you want 4 Faction slots you can have them simply by installing it as a separate full 4 slot game.

if you want the convenience of accessing both games from the same account you will have to do it under their conditions or find a game you like better.

Ensabah Nur · Feb 11, 2006, 02:26 AM // 02:26

I reiterate

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

Wether we keep Factions seperate or not from Prophecies should have no bearing on how many character slots are given. If Anet is going to give us 4 character slots with Factions(which they already officially stated), then it makes no difference in server/memory space if we combine them with Prophecies or not. So therefore we should have a minimum of 8 character slots regardless. Matter of fact combining the 2 will take up just a tiny bit less server/memory space because it will be only 1 account to track instead of 2.Go ahead try and dispute that argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

*snipped* i hope you actually realize how tiny a sample that poll represents.

Wether it is a small sample or not it clearly indicates to Anet what the majority of the potential consumers that bothered to answer want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

if you want the convenience of accessing both games from the same account you will have to do it under their conditions or find a game you like better.

So you are saying : "If you don't like it leave."? hmmm I wonder if Anet is taking this stance too?(I doubt it)

I'm not sure that you understand how consumerism works, if consumer(s) are not satisfied with a product(or it's qualities) the consumer(s) may choose not to purchase that product thereby being less money for the manufacturer of that product. However if the manufacturer where to seek what the consumer(s) would like in their product and provide that for the consumer(s) the consumer(s) would be more inclined to purchase that product thereby being more money for the manufacturer. This is why there are so many Research/survey companies seeking consumers input on almost every product on the planet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

after the UAS debacle they will not even consider giving out more than 2 slots which would be one slot for each new profession.

The topic of character slots has nothing to do with the UAS debacle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

the lesson they learned from UAS (offered one beta weekend for testing only) is that whatever is given is expected to continue as a permanent feature that is the players right.

with each additional chapter scheduled for 2 additional professions if 3/4 slots were given this time the arguement for 3/4 slots would be that you gave us that many last time and we will not settle for less.

So your theory here means that since Prophecies came out with 4 character slots and we already know that Factions is coming out with 4 character slots therefore all future Chapters of GW should come out with 4 character slots? Your plan would have us eventually having more character slots than primary professions/classes.

I'll be happy if they just "catch up" by giving us 4 with Factions(linked &/or unlinked to Prophecies) and from then on give us the 2 chracter slots for the 2 new classes of each new chapter. This way we will always be able to have 1 slot of each primary profession/class if we so choose.

Still have questions/comments ? Read my quote at the start of this post again.

Gli · Feb 11, 2006, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

do the math on the combined accounts.

chapter 1

6 professions with 3 slots plus 1 pvp slot

chapter 2 added to chapter 1

8 professions with 4 slots plus 1 pvp slot

each covers all professions as a primary/secondary combo plus a pvp or extra pve

That's weird, my GW didn't come with a PvP slot, but with 4 PvE slots. I must've bought a different edition.

Here's how the math works out for me.

Chapter 1

6 professions with 4 slots.

chapter 2 added to chapter 1

8 professions with 6 slots

Each leaves me 2 slots short to play each profession as a primary.

Now, with such a shortage in character slots, chances are slim I'll ever bother making a PvP character, but I'll still buy. Any less than a combined total of 6 slots, and I'm shopping for a new pastime.

Sai of Winter · Feb 11, 2006, 06:55 AM // 06:55

I'll buy it no matter what some people had any negative thoughts on Factions. I mean, they just read an article (released a few weeks ago) about it and judged the game already. It is better to experience GWF first hand when it is finally released and then make a conclusion on how feel about the game.

Ensabah Nur · Feb 11, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sai of Winterland

I'll buy it no matter what some people had any negative thoughts on Factions. I mean, they just read an article (released a few weeks ago) about it and judged the game already. It is better to experience GWF first hand when it is finally released and then make a conclusion on how feel about the game.

I suppose you(and some others) would buy a car without at least looking at it first, nevermind test drive it? Buy a house without seeing if it is livable? Be happy if you ordered a Bic Mac and only got one burger patty?

All I can say is companies love consumers like you that just throw your money at them no matter what they produce.

Which brings me back to a very famous quote that I keep reiterating about this subject:
"A fool and their money are soon parted." -Unknown

FYI all some of us are doing here is trying to inform Anet what we'd like to see/have in their product to make us consumers part with our hard earned money to purchase it.

funbun · Feb 11, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

I suppose you(and some others) would buy a car without at least looking at it first, nevermind test drive it? Buy a house without seeing if it is livable? Be happy if you ordered a Bic Mac and only got one burger patty?

All I can say is companies love consumers like you that just throw your money at them no matter what they produce.

Which brings me back to a very famous quote that I keep reiterating about this subject:
"A fool and their money are soon parted." -Unknown

FYI all some of us are doing here is trying to inform Anet what we'd like to see/have in their product to make us consumers part with our hard earned money to purchase it.

I think that's why they are giving us these Preview beta weekends. March is gonna be the next one and we've already had one. Anet has already started the invite process so, you can try before you buy. Dude, was just saying don't pass judgment on Factions with limited knowledge. One article in a Magazine and one PvP Weekend is not enough to judge the game as a whole.

For instance, ppl keep complaining that Factions is PvP focused. Well, it was a freaking PvP weekend. They've already passed judgement onthe game without trying the PvE content. That's foolish.

But you do have a point about the fool and his money. Get this: with WoW you must pay $50 for the game, and then pay $15 per month to play it. If that ain't foolish, I don't know what is. If this guy buys all the GW chapters sight unseen then he'll be saveing about $130 per year over WoW. So, If you're gonna be foolish, GW is the least foolish way to go.

Ensabah Nur · Feb 11, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

I think that's why they are giving us these Preview beta weekends. March is gonna be the next one and we've already had one. Anet has already started the invite process so, you can try before you buy. Dude, was just saying don't pass judgment on Factions with limited knowledge. One article in a Magazine and one PvP Weekend is not enough to judge the game as a whole.

For instance, ppl keep complaining that Factions is PvP focused. Well, it was a freaking PvP weekend. They've already passed judgement onthe game without trying the PvE content. That's foolish.

But you do have a point about the fool and his money. Get this: with WoW you must pay $50 for the game, and then pay $15 per month to play it. If that ain't foolish, I don't know what is. If this guy buys all the GW chapters sight unseen then he'll be saveing about $130 per year over WoW. So, If you're gonna be foolish, GW is the least foolish way to go.

I'm not passing judgement on it. In fact I'm sure gameplay will be greater than Prophecies. I don't PvP(stated earlier, it's just not the part of the game I like to play). My posts are based on what info Anet has/has not passed onto us, not by any articles in mags/online. I don't play WoW, EQ etc because they are Pay 2 Play, but your equation only works if you don't realize that in order for us to "stay up" with GW content we will be paying $100 per year ourselves $50 for each "chapter" . In Anet's defense I will say I love what they've done so far with Prophecies and the business model of Prophecies, but I'm hoping to not be disappointed by Factions (business model). I'm looking at this through a consumers POV.

Still have questions/comments? Read my previous posts again you likely missed something.

funbun · Feb 11, 2006, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

I'm not passing judgement on it. In fact I'm sure gameplay will be greater than Prophecies. I don't PvP(stated earlier, it's just not the part of the game I like to play). My posts are based on what info Anet has/has not passed onto us, not by any articles in mags/online. I don't play WoW, EQ etc because they are Pay 2 Play, but your equation only works if you don't realize that in order for us to "stay up" with GW content we will be paying $100 per year ourselves $50 for each "chapter" . In Anet's defense I will say I love what they've done so far with Prophecies and the business model of Prophecies, but I'm hoping to not be disappointed by Factions (business model). I'm looking at this through a consumers POV.

Still have questions/comments? Read my previous posts again you likely missed something.

I never said that you were passing judgment on it. I was speaking of those who have passed judgement on the game.

I was saying that in order to stay up on WoW you have to Pay $50 for the game and $15 per month to play. For one year that's $230. For Guild Wars if you decide to stay up on the game it would only cost you $100 per year.

If a foolish person, the type person who willingly throwes money into something sight unseen, the types companies love chose, you would still save $130 per year by playing Guiild Wars.

I understand what you are saying about informing Anet. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about those ppl who have already decided they don't want to by Faction after one article, a few webpages on GW website, and a single PvP weekened. This does not include you.

For those ppl they need to wait at least untill March's Beta Weekend to get a better picture of what it's all about. Just going off what Anet says isn't enough.

Ensabah Nur · Feb 11, 2006, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

I never said that you were passing judgment on it. I was speaking of those who have passed judgement on the game.

I was saying that in order to stay up on WoW you have to Pay $50 for the game and $15 per month to play. For one year that's $230. For Guild Wars if you decide to stay up on the game it would only cost you $100 per year.

If a foolish person, the type person who willingly throwes money into something sight unseen, the types companies love chose, you would still save $130 per year by playing Guiild Wars.

Which is why Anet got my money and not Blizzard etc. However if they wish to continue getting my money they will need to make me feel as if I am getting my money's worth.(<All I've been saying all along)

funbun · Feb 11, 2006, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensabah Nur

Which is why Anet got my money and not Blizzard etc. However if they wish to continue getting my money they will need to make me feel as if I am getting my money's worth.(<All I've been saying all along)

I agree.

What's more, I think there might be chapters in the future that I won't buy because they don't appeal to me or whatever. But the fact that you can stay competitive with or without the newer chapters is cool.

Hanok Odbrook · Feb 11, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

I think many people are missing the point here. There's no argument that GW is a great bargain (as my earlier post states - $8+ for one account, $16+ for two per month). I also don't think that the content contained in Factions is a determining factor for purchase either.

However, what that content will do will enable Anet to reasonably price the new chapter (and all additional ones to come) at the $50 price point without necessarily increasing the ratio of character slots and account storage for those owning multiple chapters. We will be getting more than double the content of the first chapter with Factions at the same price point, therefore the higher increased ratio of content should make up for the lower increased ratio of character slots and storage when adding Factions to an existing account in their minds.

I will be very surprised if upgraded accounts end up with 8 character slots. Personally, I think we deserve 8, as that is how I would have developed the franchise, being a long time RPGer and amateur writer of games (the pen and paper variety - not the comp variety ... yet). I doubt I would have enjoyed playing the Wizardry series, nor still be going back to those green-lined mazes even today if the games prohibited me from creating a character in each of the eight professions and five races of the original games unless a purchased a whole new copy of the program.

I am curiously interested in the upcoming NCSoft release of Auto Assault which offers three playable races and promises a completely different playing experience with each - but if I cannot create and have one character of each race on my account without having to delete a prior creation, then I'll pass that game by, no matter how good the content is.

I think that our time spent in the game is the real debate here: the value we have placed in the time we have currently invested in our characters we have created to play the game. There's no doubt that PvE in GW plays much the same no matter what primary profession your character(s) are, but there is enough difference in strategy to make even Pre-Searing replayable with each of the primes. At the very least, we should be allowed to do that without having to throw away any play time we may have put into the game previously.

Balance issues really don't cut it as an excuse. We all have a favorite character we like to play with, and will still use that character for most of the adventuring, regardless of the number of slots we may be given. PvP play is even less of an issue as Random arenas are just that, and Guilds will always have the variety of professions needed to play successfully in tournaments - that's all part of the strategy. I highly doubt that we'll see every guild filled with only Assassins and Ritualists the week Factions is released. Every guild knows what their particular play style and strategy calls for, and members will have characters based on that - not based on the number of slots available. So there is no reason why those of us who want to enjoy GW to it fullest should not be able to have a character slot available for each primary profession Anet develops (and enough storage to hold on to all those special items without having to run around with no weapons to fight with - anybody still peeved about a slot being taken up by that mysterious Tapestry Shred?).

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
http://www.realmillenniumgroup.com/guild.html
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

4runner · Feb 11, 2006, 07:53 PM // 19:53

well said, i will be buying 2 copies!!